Curse

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

When I was talking about 2 seconds casting spells I was not talking about those with '2 seconds' in the skill descriptions, but about those that are casted in two seconds under the current speed of the character, considering current effects, like fast casting and or hexes.

Due to human braing limitations and connection lag, and since only skills that are casted at 2 seconds or more have non-instant activation indicators(you know, that animated bars that move from left to right when you activate skills), human players interrupting a certain spells cast in under 2 seconds casting it's more matter of luck than skill. You may try to guess what and when is foe is going to cast, but you will not see which skill since more specific casting animations start during the half of the first second. Most of the time if you interrupt, you will not interrupt what you want.

And for protections stuff, it doesn't really make a difference having something activated 1/16..1/2 seconds after or before. Yeah, you may land how many? 0..1 hits depending on weapon attack speeds and skills used.
In PvP people try to use things that go through defenses and prevent them from being reappleid, not things that try to kill things before the defenses take place, that's almost impossible most of the time. Can you prevent a pre-veil from the other side of the map? No, but you can remove it really quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

[...]I should've posted this in the Glad's section, less ignorant PvErs there.

XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If this goes through, then the next logical proposal would be to remove all expansion professions from the game. Granted, Anet isn't going to touch HCT mods or else all the PvErs will cry about how they can't quickly animate their bone fiends.

Oh, don't you worry about them.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mindbender
See? They are well served.

HCT it's not about that. For minions it's better a +1(20%).

TorquemadaXL · Feb 17, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

U don't want it? U don't need it? just DON'T USE IT!!
Stop complaining about what U want or need or u think it can be usable or HAVE TO BE REMOVED from game.
If u think that a mod, a skill or anything unbalance UR game just quit using that, but please, don't act like u're the only one that knows how to play or how is good.
I like what i like and i use what i use, none of ur business.

I'm way bored of threads like this in which every ppl don't suggest a way to get a better result from game updates, but simply get "the mad scientist smart idea of the millennium" because they just don't like that thing or don't know how to use it (generally speaking there) whitout proposing a solution, just cutting it off. GREAT! I think it's a lame way of proposing updates.

definitively /not signed.

OT: The same way i'm pissed off of ppl that want to nerf Ursan Blessing (I don't use it) just because they can't sell mallyx stuff at 100k+xx ectos anymore.

arcanemacabre · Feb 17, 2008, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

It's guild wars, not chess. If HCT/HCR mods are removed from the game than critical hits should be as well. Might as well make everything as controlled as possible.

Exactly why they belong in the game. There are MANY things left to chance in GW, why remove just one? Cause it annoys you? Why is this one so much more "game-breaking" in your eyes than say, % block chance, or what piece of armor is hit when struck by an attack?

Pleikki · Feb 17, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

/notsignet? what point for removing any mods? i dont think any of em make Huge difference tbh so who cares? i think they should nerf the skills not mods.

RhanoctJocosa · Feb 17, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Exactly why they belong in the game. There are MANY things left to chance in GW, why remove just one? Cause it annoys you? Why is this one so much more "game-breaking" in your eyes than say, % block chance, or what piece of armor is hit when struck by an attack?

Firstly, thank you for posting something decent. With skills like Guardian and such, the chance to block is a reward for putting it on the right person and the right time. Getting a fast cast Guardian that saves your ass because you were slow on the pre-prot isn't rewarding you for having the foresight that the latter did, you're simply spared the party wipe/dp because you lucked out. Epic theorycraft, yes, but I'm trying to make a point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorquemadaXL

U don't want it? U don't need it? just DON'T USE IT!!
Stop complaining about what U want or need or u think it can be usable or HAVE TO BE REMOVED from game.
If u think that a mod, a skill or anything unbalance UR game just quit using that, but please, don't act like u're the only one that knows how to play or how is good.
I like what i like and i use what i use, none of ur business.

I'm way bored of threads like this in which every ppl don't suggest a way to get a better result from game updates, but simply get "the mad scientist smart idea of the millennium" because they just don't like that thing or don't know how to use it (generally speaking there) whitout proposing a solution, just cutting it off. GREAT! I think it's a lame way of proposing updates.

definitively /not signed.

OT: The same way i'm pissed off of ppl that want to nerf Ursan Blessing (I don't use it) just because they can't sell mallyx stuff at 100k+xx ectos anymore.

Stay in Riverside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds.

Poor things.

arcanemacabre · Feb 17, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Firstly, thank you for posting something decent. With skills like Guardian and such, the chance to block is a reward for putting it on the right person and the right time. Getting a fast cast Guardian that saves your ass because you were slow on the pre-prot isn't rewarding you for having the foresight that the latter did, you're simply spared the party wipe/dp because you lucked out. Epic theorycraft, yes, but I'm trying to make a point.

While that's true, it also works on the reverse - damage. Every weapon has a damage range, and every time you hit a nearly dead foe, that weapon has a chance to deal the killing blow (including a chance to crit), or a chance to allow that foe to live just long enough for that saving heal or prot. As far as I can tell, everything is balanced around these chance occurances, too - including the half cast/recharge mods. Something to consider.

Shuuda · Feb 17, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

I can understand why you would want to see HCT mods removed, the game could certainly potenially benefit from it, since A-net won't ever do it, (due to PvErs QQing over it without understanding) The closest we'll get is nerfing GoLE so that it gives an energy return rather than reduction, or so that cancel casts take up one of it's two uses, but even so, that only fixed thr Aegis abuse.

Aera · Feb 17, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

One of the main problems is the GoLE+Aegis abuse that is used with the HCT skill. Even when only 20% of your skills get the HCT it can still be exploited to guarentee a HCT for important spells

The problem there lies with GoLE, not with the HCT.

And what's wrong with a luck factor? This gives the somewhat lesser skilled players a chance too, and it makes games have more variety and is way less predictable. Being interrupt fodder is boring as hell. We'll see a ton of interrupts if this happens, because most good skills have a relatively long casting time, and will be easily interrupted.

/notsigned

Blu · Feb 17, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

/notsigned

This is irrevelant when arond 3/4 of the game is luck.

Yawgmoth · Feb 17, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

An option for debate: Disable the random triggers of HCT and HSR from PvP so they have no effect there. No changes to PvE.

But is that really needed? I mean I know they're very potent, I always try to use them to their best, and I must say that getting a HSR trigger or 2 in a row is often even more gamebreaking than a random HCT. It all depends on the skills, both effects feel imba when triggered in the right moment. Be it fakecasting that Aegis on a Glyph till you hit that HCT, casting a Ward in 1/2s making that ranger miss with his Dshot, or getting a lucky HSR on that Divine Spirit to recharge in 30 and gain massive advantage if unanswered.
HSR is at least as potent as HCT, they just affect different skills and situations, HCT is more about getting interrupted or not while HSR is more about getting more sheer power of skills which are limited by long recharge times.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 17, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

This is among the most pointless threads about a complete and utter non-problem I've seen in Sardelac.

zwei2stein · Feb 17, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

By ops logic, damage range should be removed from game in favor of fixed damage on each weapon.

One team can get lucky and score lots of max damage hits while other can get unlucky and just plink their axes for 8 damage per hit.

Next logical step is to Fix critical hits, sundering mods and all that, including % block skills.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 17, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Cue the cats.

Proff · Feb 17, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Remove them from the game.

It's been argued before here but the main reason why HCT mods are bad for the game is that they make luck a huge factor in success/failure, which is bad. Things like lag/ping, which are also bad for the game in terms of high level play, you can't do anything about, but ANet can fix this.

Discuss.

Err, you shouldn't rely on your mods, if you rely on luck to do anything in gw chances are you're doing something wrong.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

OP-

Your thread lacks logic, as do your arguments. If we remove one luck based thing that will help you, we need to remove all mods on weapons, especially those pesky +1 20% chance mods, those are the devil of them all! Those last few seconds saved his butt, and he didn't even have the attributes to do it! Imba!1shift! It also means we remove the drop system and replace it with set drops for each monster. I mean, it's just wrong that one person gets a crystalline through luck and one person gets a Req 13 garbage staff! Nerf it!

Seriously. Stop whining because gaurdian prevents insta-gab. Run [skill]expose defenses[/skill] on your bar and go back to your scrub PvP.

This thread fails. Cue the lolcats.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 17, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If this goes through, then the next logical proposal would be to remove all expansion professions from the game. Granted, Anet isn't going to touch HCT mods or else all the PvErs will cry about how they can't quickly animate their bone fiends.

I'd sign this too.

In principle, I agree that luck shouldn't really be a deciding factor (and for the record - Guardian isn't a luck-based skill - as a Warrior, it's a skill that forces me to switch targets/rage at my mes or ranger), however - as evidenced by this thread - the amount of QQing from people without a clue will really hurt ANet.

Rather than remove them from the game, why not make HCT mods simply reduce the casting speed of all spells by a lesser amount?
There, the PvEers get to raise their fiends, cast their healbreezes and drop their meteor showers faster still; and instead of giving the chance of a game-breaking cast (not deserved), the PvPers get a method to ward off interrupts, if only slightly.

Happy?

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I'd sign this too.

In principle, I agree that luck shouldn't really be a deciding factor (and for the record - Guardian isn't a luck-based skill - as a Warrior, it's a skill that forces me to switch targets/rage at my mes or ranger), however - as evidenced by this thread - the amount of QQing from people without a clue will really hurt ANet.

Rather than remove them from the game, why not make HCT mods simply reduce the casting speed of all spells by a lesser amount?
There, the PvEers get to raise their fiends, cast their healbreezes and drop their meteor showers faster still; and instead of giving the chance of a game-breaking cast (not deserved), the PvPers get a method to ward off interrupts, if only slightly.

Happy?

It's still flawed logic. What about HSR mods, or +1 20%?

Stormlord Alex · Feb 17, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

It's still flawed logic. What about HSR mods, or +1 20%?

Do the same on HSR mods.
+1 mods are shit and can be ignored.

And I can't see why the logic of removing hct is flawed, it's a perfectly reasonable complaint.

[DE] · Feb 17, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

When I was talking about 2 seconds casting spells I was not talking about those with '2 seconds' in the skill descriptions, but about those that are casted in two seconds under the current speed of the character, considering current effects, like fast casting and or hexes.

Due to human braing limitations and connection lag, and since only skills that are casted at 2 seconds or more have non-instant activation indicators(you know, that animated bars that move from left to right when you activate skills), human players interrupting a certain spells cast in under 2 seconds casting it's more matter of luck than skill. You may try to guess what and when is foe is going to cast, but you will not see which skill since more specific casting animations start during the half of the first second. Most of the time if you interrupt, you will not interrupt what you want.

And for protections stuff, it doesn't really make a difference having something activated 1/16..1/2 seconds after or before. Yeah, you may land how many? 0..1 hits depending on weapon attack speeds and skills used.
In PvP people try to use things that go through defenses and prevent them from being reappleid, not things that try to kill things before the defenses take place, that's almost impossible most of the time. Can you prevent a pre-veil from the other side of the map? No, but you can remove it really quick.

XDDD, good one. What? Were you serious? I must remind you that PvErs are the ones havijng to face bosses that can activate 1/4 activation time skills in 1/16 seconds.

Oh, don't you worry about them.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mindbender
See? They are well served.

HCT it's not about that. For minions it's better a +1(20%).

I PvE'd for 99% of my guild wars career and you sir are a moron. PvE is easy. Hard Mode is easy. Bosses that activate skills at 1/16 of a second are easy. Please stop trying to act like it's tough. Also a good mesmer can consistently interrupt 1s cast spells so I don't know what you were trying to say.

Quote:

It's still flawed logic. What about HSR mods, or +1 20%?

I mentioned the HSR mod but the +1 20% mod is complete crap. No one uses it and even if they did it wouldn't make a big difference. HSR is still considered broken but to a lesser extent as it can't turn a game around quite like a HCT mod can.

Quote:

Err, you shouldn't rely on your mods, if you rely on luck to do anything in gw chances are you're doing something wrong.

Wow... way to miss the point.

Quote:

By ops logic, damage range should be removed from game in favor of fixed damage on each weapon.

One team can get lucky and score lots of max damage hits while other can get unlucky and just plink their axes for 8 damage per hit.

Next logical step is to Fix critical hits, sundering mods and all that, including % block skills.

DPS is generally controlled meaning the range of damage doesn't mean that much. Taking out % block skills is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

Quote:

Your thread lacks logic, as do your arguments. If we remove one luck based thing that will help you, we need to remove all mods on weapons, especially those pesky +1 20% chance mods, those are the devil of them all! Those last few seconds saved his butt, and he didn't even have the attributes to do it! Imba!1shift! It also means we remove the drop system and replace it with set drops for each monster. I mean, it's just wrong that one person gets a crystalline through luck and one person gets a Req 13 garbage staff! Nerf it!

Some one else that missed the point. Go back to Riverside.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Do the same on HSR mods.
+1 mods are shit and can be ignored.

And I can't see why the logic of removing hct is flawed, it's a perfectly reasonable complaint.

The complaint isn't flawed, it's the logic behind it. I could easily argue that +1 20% mods could make or break a kill, even if the situation is exeptionally rare compared to the .05 seconds of reaction time an HCT mod would save you from.

If you complain about luck, and want it fixed, you remove luck in its entirety and revert to a totally monotonous and linear system. There's no other way to logically do it.